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Need portrait advice

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Need portrait advice

Postby saphyre » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:33 am

I've only been working on this for a couple of hours but need some advice. i'm not exactly sure what I am doing/not doing wrong but I just can't seem to get the eyes (maybe thats it) right, or something. It just looks off to me. I've tried a couple of things like make certain features smaller, move the jaw line and just leave the nose but I'm still having trouble. any advice would be much appreciated.

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Postby beautifulbay » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:28 am

Hi...yes, the eyes do look off. I think you may only be seeing them in a head on kind of perspective, so as the face is turned slightly, the shape of the eyes need to be changed, not just angled. Seeing that you are looking at her from her back and at an angle, the biggest thing I see here is that you are showing too much of her face. The right side (your right not hers) should have less of it showing and it needs to show the curve of her face there. Less of that eye would definately be showing...so I think that is what is throwing off this picture....just wrong proportions and angles.
Before you fix this, take a fresh sheet of paper and just draw eyes for a while....at different angles and types. Try drawing the way these eyes should look when as she's looking over her shoulder. Find what suits this image better and then use it.
You're off to a good start. Just keep working on it!
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Postby Singular » Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:42 am

Bay's right about the angles. Take a look at this tutorial about head proportions and such: http://asingularcreation.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=759

When you are done with that one, take a look at this one: http://asingularcreation.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=662

good luck,
Joe
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Postby beautifulbay » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:42 pm

I hope you don't mind, I put some lines on it and erased the portion that shouldn't be showing, so you could see what I mean...it's hard to put it into words..... but this should give a better idea.....done as well as I could with a mouse.... But I hope you find this helpful.
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DRAW~ even if no one else understands why~ PAINT~ even if no one believes in you
CREATE~ Lose yourself in your own world ~ Just do it because you love it!
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Postby saphyre » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:26 pm

Thank you B, that makes sense once I saw what you did. Not too sure about doing homework though, I thought those days were past for me. haha but I will take a look at those tutorials. Thanks again and I'll post it again once I fix it. ^.^

Yay
In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustable. ~the Dhammapada
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Postby beautifulbay » Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:55 pm

You're welcome. I never know how advanced someone is or how much advice they need, so please take whatever help I offer with a grain of salt. There are a lot of areas I need advice on too. :D
Good Luck with it!
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CREATE~ Lose yourself in your own world ~ Just do it because you love it!
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Postby saphyre » Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:42 pm

I wouldn't consider myself a novice but I always need other peoples input because I sometimes get to fustrated when something doesn't look right and give up. It the biggest reason I think for me not picking up pencil and paper for the last few years, but then I stumbled back here. :D I'll have to put up some of my other stuff too soon. :wink:
In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustable. ~the Dhammapada
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Postby beautifulbay » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:43 pm

Yes, please put some up, I love to see people's stuff.
I sometimes get to fustrated when something doesn't look right and give up. It the biggest reason I think for me not picking up pencil and paper for the last few years


I think most of us could say the same thing at one point or another. The fact is if you love to do it, then keep going....you're always your biggest critic and you always see what your mistakes are more so than other people do. Getting help and advice from other artists is a wonderful help and truly something to appreciate...but don't let it ever make you step back and think you're not good enough. If you have areas to work on....then so be it. That's how we all get better.
DRAW~ even if no one else understands why~ PAINT~ even if no one believes in you
CREATE~ Lose yourself in your own world ~ Just do it because you love it!
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Other's work

Postby pehiatt » Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:50 pm

I have a real problem criticizing other's work, you never know where the other person is going. The secret is keep trying and work it until it looks right to you.

If you want to be more anatomically correct you have to study. there is a structure that supports the face and the eyes. Learn by drawing sculls. Even go as far to trace over print outs of drawings that you think show what you are trying to draw. The hand and eye teach each other.

Get underlying structure and the rest is easy.

I hate puters!
Last edited by pehiatt on Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby saphyre » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:50 pm

Pehiatt, I really enjoy drawing bones. I might take that up. I have never drawn a skull with any real skill just a front view. I understand what you are saying though. I awlays wanted to do a skeleton in some sort of serene yoga pose, just seems sort of humorus to me. (I just may start working on that)
But my family will thank you for your encouragement, they think the bone thing is a lil creepy. haha :D :D
In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustable. ~the Dhammapada
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Postby saphyre » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:04 pm

Now ideas are buzzing around in my head. I'm going to start my yogi skeleton tomorrow after work. I haven't been this excited to start a piece in a while. YAY.
In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustable. ~the Dhammapada
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Postby beautifulbay » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:22 am

Skeletons doing yoga...that IS funny! Looking forward to seeing it
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Postby cottonstompconte » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:50 pm

Portriats are not so easy sometimes can be down right aggravating. Good for you to be open for advice! Maybe try placing the eyes in the middle between the top of the skull and bottom of the chin. Measure it out if possible. They are usually in line with the ears. Dont quote me on it, tho, its been quite a few years since I studied this! Keep up the wonderful work.
Diane
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Portraits

Postby Carmelo » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:34 pm

I will add that portraits can be done in many styles and media, the idea is to capture the essence of the sitter I should think. For some this comes easy, for others, intense focus is required. I fall into the latter group.
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need portrait advice

Postby IRMA BACKELANT » Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:14 pm

Bay is right about the eyes showing less on the lt side (model) shadow it heavily so the light source is coming from her rt and drop shadow the head to give it depth and not have it flat looking. Good luck - looks like it will be nice piece. Take a picture of yourself in the mirror to get angle and shadows right.
IJ.....
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Re: Other's work

Postby Laura D » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:28 pm

pehiatt wrote:If you want to be more anatomically correct you have to study. there is a structure that supports the face and the eyes. Learn by drawing sculls. Even go as far to trace over print outs of drawings that you think show what you are trying to draw. The hand and eye teach each other.


This is really sound advice! Learning the basics of bone structure helps so much because the "covering" of the face is so thin. Getting a feel for the general rules of proportion and feature placement helps to individualize portraits of different people... how does this person's face deviate from the general rules? Where does it conform. You also learn where to look to evaluate these things.

One of the things that made the biggest impact on my ability to draw eyes was to learn that the eyeball is attached to the outside of the orbital cavity!

Another thing that helped me with the planes of the face was to look at people with dramatic lighting. You can tell by the shape of the shadows where facial features recede and protrude.

I'm a big advocate of learning and am happy if I learn something new every day. I am fascinated by the skull... not just it's structure and shape but why it is built the way it is!
Laura Dicus
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Bones are only a start

Postby pehiatt » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:22 pm

I think the Yoga thing is great. You wold be surprised at what you could do with 206 bones.

If you look at how people who do good figure work are able to do it, you will find that they studied anatomy. Not so easy if you are not in a good art school. I say good because some schools are dropping life study and anatomy because its not PC.

For the novice the next best thing is looking closer at the people around you. I often get caught staring. Then there are friends. Get them to pose for you. Once you start to capture a likeness you will find that people will enjoy sitting for you. Draw DRAW, DRAW! its great for the mind and soul.

You have to look to understand whats going on and you can't help improving with time and practice. Once you catch on to an element it becomes part of your vocabulary.

I don't do portraits anymore but they are good for learning the face and hands. I also seldom draw from a model anymore; to many issues even if they keep their clothes on. I draw mostly from memory and just watching others from a distance. A mirror helps. I have a glass door on my studio, comes in handy. The attached Zeus used the door for the action pose. Many artist have done self portraits using a mirror. Its more than vanity. Its study.

Use a digital camera and take pictures of your own face from many angles. Above all don't give up.
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Postby saphyre » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:09 pm

Thank you very much for your advice Pehiatt. i have been busy this holiday season but now that things have slowed down and are getting back to normal I plan on falling into a more rotuine practice. I do love to take pictures, especially of people. I have not tried a self portrait and think I might give a good one this comming weekend.

Thanks again, and as always I love to see your work, the Zeus is one of my favorites so far.
In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustable. ~the Dhammapada
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