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Socio-political commentary

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Postby william » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:19 pm

I'm with you too. I think ASC is a place to share thoughts on the creative and expressive process... Didn't mean to strike a nerve guys.. :P

By the way, pehiatt, wow, did we
ing that out or just strike a nerve, thank you. Part of the reason I'm hear is to relearn how to speak with professionals about art. And this sight is fantastic.

But there is logic in all that's been said and I think to some point the limits we put on our expression is guided by consequence, for example, wanting to sell work...I hope I'm not off track, but in this day and age, where is the market for socio-political art... I recently went to an opening for an artist I've admired since I was a kid. He had a triptic up titled "The More Things Change, the More They Stay the Same." The work outside of being well crafted, commicates the artist's feeling of how the powers that be control, plot, plan, and stand above the rest of us. What's interesting is the 7 figures in the paintings almost looked dressed for greek times, and he had the 7 main cultures of the world represented by these figures... However, other paintings sold, and this one just stood there, to my knowledge anyway....The paintings which told stories of the past sold, but the one with the political statement stayed put, (of course if I had $5,000 I would have bought it.)

My point is you can incorporate a political and social message without having to pay the price of "take this in your face." On a creative level, we as artist's always have a story to tell through our work, something provokes us to show the world our thoughts. And yes it can be done without insulting people directly....... But is there a market for that?

Some of us just like to be a little bit naughty though and throw it right out there......

we could problalbly go on with this topic forever and a day BAReam.
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This subject struck a nerve.

Postby pehiatt » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:41 pm

I have a special personal and professional relationship with free speech. Sorry if I went a bit over the top.

The MOCA DC gallery is a place where everything sacred is challenged. Nudes rein supreme. Politics and social political art dominates many of the exhibit themes. There is a place. September is on the homeless and October is on Washington politics, anything goes. There is a place for it and some of this stuff sells.
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Postby william » Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:03 am

Pehiatt, not a bit at all over the top. Very passionate though, and that's the reason I'm happy to be here... For anyone who say argument, I saw debate. It's good to know there are people who state their mind intelligently...I look foward to more.

It's too bad I won't be able to log on for a few days, I'll have to catch up, especially on the freedom of speech, thought, and creation.......

Oh and by the way, If I find myself in DC, is the MOCA open to the public? I'd like to check it out, maybe send me a little more info on it.
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Postby Erika Takacs » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:36 pm

It's interesting to read the opinions, but I would much rather SEE those socio-political commentaries. Where are they?
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Postby BAReam » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:04 pm

William... you can Google the site to check it out. I did and it appears to have some venue offerings. Membership and hanging fees seem to be reasonable as well. Check it out... be well
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A good place to start

Postby pehiatt » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:22 pm

Google Social Political Art - Then click images

A good example of what can be found there is here.

http://www.socialpoliticalart.com/2008_04_01_archive.html

For anyone interested in MOCA DC its web page is here.

http://www.mocadc.org/

check out their archives for a true perspective.

There is a lot of socal political art here on ASC if you consider that all life is social political.
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Postby Erika Takacs » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:37 pm

Erika Takacs wrote:It's interesting to read the opinions, but I would much rather SEE those socio-political commentaries. Where are they?


Sorry, I meant to say works from ASC members. I only saw one or two from Bruce so far. Those who had something to say in this thread might have something to show I suppose.
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Postby DLKeur » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:47 pm

Catching up, there is so much to respond to. Instead, I think I'll just say this: I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree, I DISAGREE.

This forum, this thread in this forum, on this board, is most appropriate, is most civil, retains decorum, and absolutely belongs. It's refreshing. To suggest it could destroy ASC is bogus. Instead, what it does is stimulate our belief in ourselves and our co-artists here. It allows us to believe that we are not alone, that others also THINK. While we might not agree, we see here, in this thread, that we can discuss points of view without castigation from others and without moderation by owners/moderators. Of course it belongs. Of course.
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Postby BAReam » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:33 pm

Erika Takacs wrote:
Erika Takacs wrote:It's interesting to read the opinions, but I would much rather SEE those socio-political commentaries. Where are they?


Sorry, I meant to say works from ASC members. I only saw one or two from Bruce so far. Those who had something to say in this thread might have something to show I suppose.


Erika... actually there are several. The lithograph on "War"... No Easy Exit.. and every piece which contains any reference to the "Pawn". Although, I'll have to say that the social/ political implications may not be
ought to the fore without more background information relating to the pawn. I'm now attempting to eliminate much of that ambiguity.

I was hoping that this dialogue might jog some others to produce some social/political commentary in there work... and to post it {decorum and civility applies}. Bear in mind I certainly don't expect anyone to adopt this type of work to become a modus operandi.

The reason I would like to see this... and there is only one, is this. We all, myself included, can pay lip service to social/ political issues without doing any real soul searching to get at what we deeply believe. Doing Art about an issue makes us dig deep to solidify our thoughts and feelings... Krysta is deep into that process{effects of drug use/abuse}; and I commend her for that. Art is NOT always fun and certainly NOT always easy.
Soapbox over... out. :?

All the best Ericka... be well
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Postby BAReam » Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:57 pm

DLKeur wrote:Catching up, there is so much to respond to. Instead, I think I'll just say this: I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree, I DISAGREE.

This forum, this thread in this forum, on this board, is most appropriate, is most civil, retains decorum, and absolutely belongs. It's refreshing. To suggest it could destroy ASC is bogus. Instead, what it does is stimulate our belief in ourselves and our co-artists here. It allows us to believe that we are not alone, that others also THINK. While we might not agree, we see here, in this thread, that we can discuss points of view without castigation from others and without moderation by owners/moderators. Of course it belongs. Of course.


Dawn... thanks for your opinion and support. It means a lot, and I'm sure many others feel the same, even though they might be the silent majority.
Be well my friend.
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Postby Erika Takacs » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:14 pm

Yes, Bruce, good idea to exchange thoughts. Visual artists can contribute to
inging attention to important issues facing society today. I agree with Mike 51 that movies have the most impact on the masses, but film directors today are just not making those type of movies they used to in the '70's and 80's. Rock, rap and alternative music also have a big influence on young people. Some of them (Bono is the most obvious) make their voice heard even by the most powerful statesmen.

In visual arts no big name comes to mind. But I don't agree that visual arts are being exiled to dusty museum attics. People are lining up everywhere to see a Mueck exhibit, and Banksy is gaining more and more popularity, especially with young people. Does it matter if it's mainstream? As long as it's a good message, and the masses get it, it's a successful socio-political commentary to me. And then there's Spencer Tunick, who's using thousands of nude people for his installations around the world. Sometimes he wants to make a statement on serious problems like global warming, and AIDS http://www.artnet.com/usernet/awc/awc_w ... 653&page=1
I think most people don't care, don't understand, don't like or are uncomfortable with radical, in-your-face art, but a few artists like these three for example have found a unique, personal way to reach millions with their message.
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Postby BAReam » Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:38 pm

Erika... Thanks for your input. I'll have to admit I've been a little lazy and not really up to speed on the most contemporary folks... but I'm working on it. I looked at Banksy and he has a great tounge-in-cheek edgy humor; but I'm not sure I'd call him "in your face" really.

I will be checking out your references asap {artists}. I'm not sure you've checked out John Richardson? Pehiatt posted a link. Richardson's videos hit you like a locomotive and made a profound impression on me, and has helped me solidify some of the things I've been sorting out in my work. I recommend taking a look if you haven't already.

be well... Bruce
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Postby Erika Takacs » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:32 am

No, I don't consider any of the names mentioned in-your-face, I just think they are successful in delivering a message.
Yes, I saw the Richardson videos, they're very powerful. I liked his art too. But honestly, I think he will have a limited audience unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong.
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Is it the medium?

Postby Mike51 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:58 am

There has been a lot said about what is wrong with the world. There is a lot of frustration evident in this thread. My theory about that level of frustration isn't so much from the lack of socio-politically motivated "artwork", but the less that effective mediums that we are interested in. The Market for painting, and sculpture, even photography won't be as effective, in 2008, for making a strong statement without high tech support. It's not that the artists are not effective, they are. Some of the most significant works of art that I have seen have been on the Internet. I for one I am thankful to have access to works of the thinking people like "yall" (my south is showing)
I have always avoided explaining my painting, because, I feel it shouldn't be necessary to give words to justify. However, I love to hear another artists explanation. Would another thread be appropriate for such an exchange, not a critique of technique, but an evaluation of the content on a gut level reaction? Maybe , its too much. My experience, at shows, people ask "What is this painting about?",.......... and what I would like to say is "If I could put it in words, I would....What do you think?" Is any one interested in giving it a try.
:idea:
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Postby BAReam » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:22 pm

Mike... thanks for your comments. I would have to agree that perhaps in todays society, which is unprecedented in access to myriad models of information, painting and sculpture probably may not the most effective and efficient means of making a social or political statement. For myself, currently, time, finances and access are the determining factor on how the message is presented. I'm currently trying to change that.

On explaining a work of art... well I guess I'm with you on this point as well. Many times I've been queried to explain my work. If I feel they are truly interested in content or process I will attempt to describe at least the central theme(s). But, if I feel they are just being lazy, or hazy, I may defer by saying something like; if I were able the fully describe what this work is about, I'd be a writer. Then of course they will walk away convinced you are a smart-ass elitist. Of course I've only resorted to this strategy a few times when the questioner was being insistent and almost combative. I'll paraphrase John Richardson... don't ask me what it is about. I'll just make something up.

I have gone so far as to be fashionably late to my own openings, and when I do show up, do so unannounced and mingle with the crowd. This can be very insightful... but don't blow your cover by being defensive. Believe me, the people who know you will really get a kick out of it. I can be so naughty sometimes :shock:

Discussion among artists is an entirely different thing, in my opinion, as discussion is very much a learning process. Discovery, and self discovery.
I'm rambling, so will dumby-up for a bit... Be well Mike
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Re: Is it the medium?

Postby Erika Takacs » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:02 pm

Mike51 wrote:I have always avoided explaining my painting, because, I feel it shouldn't be necessary to give words to justify. However, I love to hear another artists explanation. Would another thread be appropriate for such an exchange, not a critique of technique, but an evaluation of the content on a gut level reaction? Maybe , its too much. My experience, at shows, people ask "What is this painting about?",.......... and what I would like to say is "If I could put it in words, I would....What do you think?" Is any one interested in giving it a try.
:idea:


Mike, you might want to give it a try in the Art Discussion or Just Showing forum if you like. I remember once someone asking the same question, it was very interesting to read all the different, sometimes surprising interpretations.
I'll try find that post.
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same

Postby Mike51 » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:11 pm

Bruce, I like that you will sneak up and eaves drop to hear what really say....
Lets try it under Art Discussion as a New Thread called What Do You Really See. Lets see what opinions come out. I'll start.
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Postby BAReam » Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:22 pm

Mike ... I prefer to describe this strategy as clandestine reconnaissance rather than sneaking ... sneaking just sounds, well, not so nice :roll: :)

Be well... Bruce
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Postby shelley wheeler » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:20 am

on the subject of the pawn series....mine also do not have a head..they end up with either a blank circle, or a free formed ball in a cage..not because they don't have an opinion, but because they are all thoughts. the older i get, the more people i can relate to, the more grey my opinions become....i would hate to be pidgeon holed into any one line of thought...whether it was in sculpture or in writing
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Postby BAReam » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:06 am

shelley wheeler wrote:on the subject of the pawn series....mine also do not have a head..they end up with either a blank circle, or a free formed ball in a cage..not because they don't have an opinion, but because they are all thoughts. the older i get, the more people i can relate to, the more grey my opinions become....i would hate to be pidgeon holed into any one line of thought...whether it was in sculpture or in writing


Shelley: thanks for commenting on the "pawn" series. The pawn sculpture is the only one that is depicted without a head. I was not aware that you had produced any work {conceptual pawn} of this type.

I certainly agree with not wanting to be pidgeon holed. As a famous philosopher has said... " to define me, is to negate me"{author... escapes me at the moment. Still working on my first cup of coffee :oops: }

Maybe you could post some of your sculpture relating to this topic... I'd like to see it.
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